Thursday, 4 December 2014

Scratching through the Ashes

More content spewing out after D-day. I've just come upon it as I go through all my records to make sure I have my ducks in a row for John's next legal attack. On the day I found out about him cheating on me with Debbie, I started a WhatsApp group between the two of us called 'Betrayal'. This is more of the conversation between us. Watch how this Narcissist tries to manipulate us both - somehow to try to preserve the status quo by pressing our buttons and keeping us on a leash. Doesn't really work out for him. Hurts like hell to read it all again. But here goes...

It begins as we get into the car to travel home together after the disastrous weekend we had in the bush. More of that story can be found on 'Betrayal' and 'Remembering the bad stuff as Protection against Charm'.

18 May 11:54 AM - Trudy North: Brushed our teeth together for the last time. If I ever write my book about this journey I'll call it ' it began and ended with toothpaste'.
18 May 4:32 PM - Trudy North: Long journey home. Brutal. Gentle. Pain. Insight. Regret.  Loss. Sad sad farewells.

(I finally returned John's phone to him at this point after he dropped me off at home)

18 May 4:33 PM - John Smith: I will read this space always - and keep it as a history of the journey

18 May 4:35 PM - John Smith: Devastated now ..... horribly sad and lonely. I cant yet begin to fathom or even imagine how much pain I have inflicted

18 May 4:38 PM - Trudy North: Please keep yourself safe through this pain my love. I know it's going to be devastatingly brutal for you now. Feel it but know you have sons who love and need you to become the father you can be to them. Stay in it. It will get better in time.

18 May 7:02 PM - Trudy North: Seeing that you're both active on whatsapp this evening scaring me. Even tho you are now free to get together whenever you please I'm just scared and sore. Not stopping you.  Just saying.

18 May 7:05 PM - John Smith: Trudy ..... I haven't touched my phone at all - I wouldn't do that to you now .... I cant imagine hurting you in that way - sorry. (John continues to lie about this - he expects me to disbelieve the evidence of my own eyes with the 'last seen' timestamp on WhatsApp)

18 May 7:06 PM - Debbie: There hasn't been any contact between us

18 May 7:07 PM - Trudy North: I'm going to struggle so much to stop loving you. This is so fucking sore.
18 May 7:07 PM - Trudy North: Thanks guys.

18 May 7:08 PM - John Smith: Please don't stop Trudy
18 May 7:19 PM - John Smith: I am not deliberately being insensitive Debbie - Sorry, but I have always been as straight forward as possible with you about what you and I were doing. I am not trying to be a bastard here ...... and it feels peculiar using this forum .. but my truth is that Trudy is the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with

18 May 7:48 PM - Trudy North: John  I've read those sext messages between 'you' and Debbie again. You keep telling me there was no actual sex. Just humiliation stuff. And yet she clearly talks about penetrative sex and blow jobs. And is as worried as me about STDs. Are you prepared to deny it on this forum and give me the opportunity to see her agreement or not with your assertion?

(So watch him try to avoid telling the truth here. His tactic is to try and work with what is said, AND to try shame Debbie into supporting his story...but hard to do that while I'm watching, naturally)

18 May 7:49 PM - Trudy North: And I know you enjoy penetrative sex much more nowadays because you and I figured out how to make it much more lovely together.
18 May 7:50 PM - Trudy North: How could she know that if you two had not gone there?
18 May 7:51 PM - Trudy North: I'm. Sorry. This suddenly feels so sordid. I just want the whole truth with no spin or bullshit.
18 May 7:53 PM - Trudy North: And John you lied to Debbie about your relationship with me. She only found out we half live together when you invited her to our house 2 weeks ago. She had no idea we've been in a committed relationship for so long.
18 May 7:54 PM - Trudy North: So you weren't being as straightforward as possible even with her

18 May 7:57 PM - John Smith: You are right .... I did lie to Debbie about how long I have been in love with you. Trudy - Debbie ....... please meet, and please both be honest and clear with one another. Tell the REAL truth .....I am so sorry for all this pain and heartache. Debbie - I used you - and Trudy will tell you how and why. I am terribly terribly sorry and embarrassed and humiliated

18 May 7:59 PM - Trudy North: John  I already told you that if Debbie and I decide to meet it will be for our own reasons and not yours. I need the truth from YOU verified by Debbie here on this forum. Before you manipulate her into somehow backing your story. I am so sorry this is embarrassing for you. But I need truth.
18 May 8:04 PM - Trudy North: And Debbie deserves a proper apology too.  Not a backhanded one. She has cherished you for many years even though you were too stuck in your own stuff to see it.
18 May 8:05 PM - Trudy North: I'm sounding strident and punishing here. That isn't actually my inside tone. I'm actually trying to be in a kind and compassionate space with us all.
18 May 8:06 PM - Trudy North: We are all people who've been bashed by life. Doing our best trying hard.  Making stupid mistakes.  No judgement here from me. I just want to know.

18 May 8:07 PM - John Smith: Debbie knows the truth about if we have had penetrative sex ...... my words are just words, and I don't want to be misheard. Sorry - I know how hard it is for you to be as kind as you are being Trudy. I don't deserve it.
18 May 8:09 PM - John Smith: Debbie - I would like to meet with you face to face. I deserve whatever you bring
18 May 8:10 PM - John Smith: In fact ..... whether the two of you meet directly or not. As part of my apology to both of you, I would like us all to meet

18 May 8:13 PM - Trudy North: I need time to think about that. I'm very raw sore and I don't know if I'm up to it right now.

18 May 8:13 PM - John Smith: Sorry Trudy

18 May 8:40 PM - Trudy North: John . You're avoiding telling the truth. Write it here. In words we can all see. Don't tell me Debbie knows what the truth is. Just tell the truth. She can agree or deny when she reads it.

18 May 8:40 PM - Debbie: If you were straight forward with me, you would have told me about Trudy long ago, not only recently.
You've told me you love me.
You've told me that you can't share what we do with Trudy, that it's unique to 'us'
You've made out that you're only with her to preserve your job.
You've seduced and smooth-talked me into feeding your fetishes.
You're a fucking lying, using Bastard......who simply doesn't want to lose your lifestyle.
Trudy, if you stay with him you're a fool, he'll never change, only change tactics.
In spite of all of this I still wish you the best, all I've ever done is want to please you at any's so fucked up!

18 May 8:41 PM - Trudy North: Nice John . Very nice.

18 May 8:42 PM - John Smith: It needs to come out
18 May 8:43 PM - John Smith: All of it needs to come out into the open
18 May 8:43 PM - John Smith: I have been a lying using bastard
18 May 8:44 PM - John Smith: And I have some disgusting fetishes
18 May 8:45 PM - John Smith: Debbie ..... you have EVERY RIGHT to say these things
18 May 8:45 PM - John Smith: To be horribly hurt and angry
18 May 8:46 PM - John Smith: Tell everything now ..... spare nothing
18 May 8:47 PM - John Smith: My truth needs to be exposed

18 May 8:48 PM - Trudy North: You tell John . Don't be such a coward. You're manipulating us both into doing your dirty work for you. We're being fucking brave here.  Man up! !!!!
18 May 8:49 PM - Trudy North: This truth is yours to tell. To us both.

18 May 8:56 PM - John Smith: Debbie ..... you and I have not had penetrative sex. I have always avoided it. My one BIG thing I have been begging you to do is piss on me and let me lick your arse and dry your pussy

....... is THAT honest enough !!

18 May 9:01 PM - Trudy North: And what have you done while you've been begging? ?

18 May 9:01 PM - John Smith: I ask you to flash your panties at me

I have tied my cock. Wanked in front of you while you have watched me

18 May 9:03 PM - John Smith: I am a disgusting man
18 May 9:04 PM - John Smith: Depraved and sick
18 May 9:04 PM - John Smith: There you are ...... I have said it

18 May 9:07 PM - Trudy North: What is disgusting about what you have said here?
18 May 9:07 PM - Trudy North: Or depraved?
18 May 9:08 PM - Trudy North: Besides what you said to Debbie about me which is completely disgusting.
18 May 9:09 PM - Trudy North: You made love to this woman. And you are not admitting it.

18 May 9:17 PM - John Smith: No I have not ...... sorry Debbie. I have asked you to do some seriously weird and maybe disgusting stuff - but we have not made love. ..... please tell me !!!!
18 May 9:21 PM - John Smith: But it IS true that I said I could not share our "weirdness" with  Trudy, and I DID say it was unique to us. Maybe now all my shit is coming out, you are understanding why

18 May 9:24 PM - Trudy North: You're with me to keep your job???
18 May 9:25 PM - Trudy North: And you told  her you love her? ?

18 May 9:27 PM - John Smith: No Trudy. And I never said that OR that I loved Debbie...... why are you not responding Debbie
 This is all completely fucked up ..... so we can now be horribly honest about EVERYTHING

18 May 9:30 PM - Debbie: John , to put it bluntly.......on your white carpet in your lounge, I was on top and your cock was inside me.....up, down, up, down....bring back memories? And later I was on the couch, you still had rope around your cock and I swear it entered my vagina......or did you trip and fall and just land in there?
The Monday of the same week the very same cock was inside loved the juiciness........get honest!
I did tell Trudy we have rarely had penetrative sex, that much is true.

18 May 9:32 PM - Debbie: You didn't say you loved me that day, but you have many times on the phone and when leaving after a visit to my workplace

18 May 9:37 PM - John Smith: Thanks for answering Debbie. And for telling the truth

Its up to you to decide if we have had penetrative sex, and also how and why I said I love you

I am not gonna defend myself

I am broken and humiliated beyond words now

I am very sorry for all of this misery I am causing you and Trudy

(All this obsession about penetrative sex is not that anyone is being pedantic about what constitutes 'Betrayal', it's more about sniffing out the lies he told - when he was pretending to be brutally honest with me. So Debbie and I are both chasing him down a rabbit hole here so he cannot defend this lie any more.)

18 May 9:38 PM - Trudy North: It's not up to her to decide
18 May 9:38 PM - Trudy North: Of course it was that
18 May 9:39 PM - Trudy North: You've played us both for fools for your selfish needs.
18 May 9:39 PM - Trudy North: Watching you trying to play with the truth in front of my eyes is so revealing. You lie about everything.
18 May 9:40 PM - Trudy North: You would be so much more respected if you could be trusted to be real.

18 May 9:40 PM - John Smith: You and Debbie need to meet without me - I am getting in the way
18 May 9:41 PM - John Smith: Or maybe I need to be interrogated by both of you face to face

18 May 9:41 PM - Trudy North: You want to play us John .
18 May 9:42 PM - Trudy North: Like fucking violins.

18 May 9:42 PM - John Smith: I want to face you both
18 May 9:42 PM - John Smith: At the same time
18 May 9:43 PM - John Smith: So I cant be accused of that

18 May 9:43 PM - Trudy North: Put us both in a room together so you can use all the buttons you've built in us over the years to manipulate and play us

18 May 9:43 PM - Debbie: Yup, you want to spin!
We will meet, without you and when we decide to

18 May 9:43 PM - Trudy North: And it won't be about you

18 May 9:43 PM - John Smith: Ok

18 May 9:45 PM - Trudy North: You fucked Debbie properly. In my house. And lied to me about it all day. Manipulating me with bullshit to win me back. Shame on you.

18 May 9:51 PM - John Smith: Trudy - Debbie ..... whenever you DO meet, please be honest to each other

I cannot be accused or suspected of trying to "spin" either of you any more

I know what I have and haven't done .... what I have and haven't said

I have fucked up royally - and you two will sort it out for me

18 May 9:52 PM - John Smith: I am very very sorry

18 May 9:52 PM - Trudy North: We will not sort it out for you.

18 May 9:53 PM - John Smith: I didn't mean it that way
18 May 9:55 PM - John Smith: I love you Trudy

And I have fucked up my life and yours

You need and deserve a non-spin reality

18 May 9:55 PM - Trudy North: The person who is being dishonest is you. Debbie and me have been very brave and honest here. Maybe it's time to stop for the night. Maybe in the morning you will have new clarity and fresh resolve

18 May 9:56 PM - John Smith: And so do you Debbie

19 May 6:05 AM - Trudy North: Horrible night.  I'm still reeling after Debbie's revelations last night. I feel so abused John . Your depravity lies in your deceit.

19 May 6:15 AM - Trudy North: I feel like I'm lost in some dreadful Alice in wonderland story
19 May 6:31 AM - Trudy North: Here's what I see: you have made me love you with all my heart.  You have been sleeping with Debbie on and off throughout our relationship and before I met you. Taking her to more extreme sexual places than me but also having a normal sexual relationship with her. You keep us both doing what you do by making us both feel loved and telling us both you love us. 

Her job is fetish support
Mine is financial support.

So confident are you in your position with me that you behave so badly at my company that I have to ban you from site to limit the damage. Your job gets reduced to 20% of the work and you're mandated to build new revenue streams. Which you don't do. You have not done 1 stitch of work on that for 6 months.

I continue to do my job and yours. And you produce spreadsheets that are full of mistakes that expensive teams spend meeting times correcting

You are the most expensive person on the team. For 20% productivity that creates work for everyone else.

You use your spare time generated by this clever plan to pursue your sexual gratification online and with live warm bodies.

You manipulate me into paying for holidays and trips to Cape Town and have paid your way twice  that I can remember. Both times you complained bitterly about how you couldn't afford it

You explain to Debbie that you're only with me to keep your job.

It's a masterful plan John . I have to hand it to you. Until you get caught.

As I said to you yesterday. You need to find yourself a new job. The way you have used and exploited me is despicable. I cannot allow myself to be abused and exploited any more.

19 May 7:53 AM - Debbie: For the sake of transparency, Trudy asked me to mention on this forum that John  visited me more than once for sexual 'activities' just before going to see his shrink.

19 May 7:54 AM - Trudy North: Thanks Debbie
19 May 7:55 AM - Trudy North: Nice one John . It just gets better.

19 May 8:02 AM - John Smith: I know that's what I said to you Debbie ...... but I'm afraid it was another lie

I see my shrink on Wednesdays at two o'clock - so you will be able to work out that I actually never met you before my sessions

(Sometimes Narcs lie just for the hell of it. Even when the truth would be better for them. It's part of their foundational pathological stuff.)

19 May 8:04 AM - Debbie: Um........ you did, on a few Wednesdays.Why would I know this let alone make it up?

19 May 8:08 AM - John Smith: I didn't Debbie ...... sorry

19 May 8:09 AM - Debbie: Wow! Deny, deny, deny
Good modus operandi 

19 May 8:09 AM - Trudy North: Don't lie John

19 May 8:11 AM - John Smith: Please think about it Debbie

And Trudy - you know where I am before I go to my shrink.... at least 99% of the time

19 May 8:12 AM - Trudy North: Yes.  'Lunch on your own'

19 May 8:13 AM - John Smith: I have lied so much that not even my honesty here can be believed any more - I get that

(Poor sausage!! He can't be believed even when he tells the truth. Which he isn't. Poppit!)

19 May 8:14 AM - John Smith: And I am not denying you Debbie !!!
19 May 8:14 AM - John Smith: Anything but, actually
19 May 8:17 AM - John Smith: My honesty is that I have used you and abused you horrifically Debbie ..... and I am dreadfully sorry and disgusted that I could have done such a thing to such a good person
19 May 8:18 AM - John Smith: You do not deserve to be treated the way I have
19 May 8:20 AM - John Smith: And I am saying this in this forum because I need to be honest (for once)

I have behaved and treated you disgustingly. I am very sorry indeed

19 May 8:25 AM - John Smith: And also in this forum, I want to say openly for all the world to hear - that I have never used you Trudy, the way you now think I have

My love for you is genuine and real .... and always has been

Now more than ever, in some cathartic and hideous way

(Lie - watch him try steal more money now from me in the courts. Fucking asshole dickhead!)

19 May 8:38 AM - John Smith: I have hurt and betrayed and disgusted and desecrated both of you

And you have every right in the world to "get me back" for being such an horrendous person.

Please do so - I deserve it

But don't lower yourselves to my level by creating more pain and hurt than is already real

(Veiled threat??)

19 May 8:43 AM - Debbie: I take it that was for me?
You want me to seal Pandora's box?
Unfortunately we have to remind ourselves of your deviousness, your callousness and your slick way of luring people back to you.

19 May 8:48 AM - John Smith: It was for both of you .... in this open forum

No Debbie .... don't seal Pandora's box - sorry, that's not what I meant at all

The horrible truth is the horrible truth

I just don't want to hurt either of you any more, but what is done HAS to come out.

No more slickness or deviousness ..... just true honesty in as unhurtful way as possible

(How noble! Really!!)

19 May 8:54 AM - John Smith: For you Debbie ....

I was never honest enough with you about why I engaged with you the way I did

The truth is sordid and unkind, and you are an extremely good person who deserves a billion times more.

19 May 8:56 AM - Debbie: John , you are saying what you want Trudy to hear

I understand it, you are desperate

19 May 9:02 AM - John Smith: Trudy has said to me straight that you deserve more than just an apology .... and that most of all, you deserve dignity.
19 May 9:03 AM - John Smith: I am not gonna say anything more for a while, so you don't think I am being slick or devious.

19 May 9:05 AM - Trudy North: John  I think at some level you believe your own lies.
19 May 9:05 AM - Trudy North: And I think you're fighting for your job here and throwing Debbie under the bus to do that.

19 May 9:20 AM - Debbie: I think one of the lowest things you did (must feature in the top 5!)  was use Trudy's lipstick size vibrator on me, twice!I should have known, I should have known 
19 May 9:21 AM - Debbie: Sorry! The lid won't close.I am angry and hurt

19 May 9:27 AM - Trudy North: I agree. The violation of us both through that is horrendous. And I bet you don't even know that
19 May 9:28 AM - Trudy North: I have had a Pandora's box myself. Even called it that. Closing the lid feels better in the short term but I'm learning in therapy that it doesn't really help longer term.
19 May 9:29 AM - Trudy North: Feeling through the pain is more sustainable.

19 May 9:30 AM - Debbie: Thanks Trudy 

19 May 9:31 AM - Trudy North: He tried to lie to me yesterday by saying he has another one which is similar which he used.
19 May 9:32 AM - Trudy North: Why don't you send us a photo this minute of them both together so you can prove there really are 2.
19 May 9:33 AM - Trudy North: Not later after you've spent a few hours trawling sex shops to find another one.
19 May 9:33 AM - Trudy North: Remember I do have tracker on your car
19 May 9:45 AM - Trudy North: Taking too long John . Another lie exposed then. They just keep coming don't they

19 May 10:55 AM - John Smith: Debbie .... you probably wont believe me, but I am not, have not and NEVER WILL contact your husband.

I am terribly sorry if you are scared that I might

For what its worth .... I promise NEVER to do anything like that to you.

19 May 11:06 AM - Trudy North: I will back John on that one. One of his ex lovers did that to him once and the consequences have been horrendous. Blew his family apart and broke his kids. You're safe in this bit.
19 May 11:25 AM - Debbie: Thank you both, it's a weight off

(I no longer back John in this one. I have a recording of a conversation with my lawyer where he makes very real threats about what he will expose that would harm my career and my family. He will destroy anything and anyone for his own personal gain. He is a disgusting fucking monster! Nobody is safe - there's a Narc in the room!)

Pic of Vibrator sent

19 May 2:08 PM - Trudy North: John  sent me this one. He says he can't find mine. John ,this one you bought and used on me too.
19 May 2:09 PM - Trudy North: Mine looks just like this but with a silver top,  not black like this one
19 May 2:10 PM - Trudy North: Stupid sordid conversation
But John,  both have been used by us. You using them with you and Debbie is disrespectful on a whole other level.
19 May 2:11 PM - Trudy North: Your lying potentially exposed us both to STDs too,  without us knowing. Or did you imagine that because I am exclusive to you,  and Debbie to you and her husband,  that somehow that would make it Ok?

19 May 2:12 PM - Debbie: I'm pretty sure the one we used was maroon and silver.....

19 May 2:12 PM - Trudy North: Waves of horror in this story keep hitting me.
19 May 2:13 PM - Trudy North: The silver version is mine. I threw it into John s suitcase in The Bush when I realised what he had done but he suddenly can't find it.
19 May 2:15 PM - Trudy North: If it has landed back in my case somehow I will find it when I get home and send a picture. Both are more red than maroon tho.

19 May 2:20 PM - Debbie: I mistook the dark red for maroon, clearly mixing up my colour spectrum, it never had a black trim though.
19 May 2:21 PM - Debbie: I can't believe I just typed that, feels like I have to prove something

19 May 2:29 PM - Trudy North: Fess up John .  For fucks sakes.
19 May 8:25 PM - Trudy North: John  you have been fucking another woman throughout our relationship. You have told her you love her. You have told her you're with me to protect your job. I remember your going to 'MEETINGS' at her workplace even in our early days together. My memories of happy sexy loving times together have all been desecrated by the sick knowledge that you were fucking her through it all. I haven't just lost my lover. And my future. But my past as well. There is no love in that act of yours at all. Don't ever say those words to me again.
19 May 8:25 PM - Trudy North: It's not about good or bad. I am having to come to terms with the fact that the relationship I thought I was in DIDN'T EVEN EXIST! !!
19 May 8:26 PM - Trudy North: You saw how much pain I went through with painter girl. It was then that you had a chance to exit your choices and recommit to me wholeheartedly. But all you resolved to do was cover your tracks better.
19 May 8:28 PM - Trudy North: And when I found that sms from Debbie 6 months ago you just lied. Covered it up. Got on with it. Saw my pain. I think you even said 'why do I have the feeling I just got away with something? '
19 May 8:30 PM - Trudy North: You did. You got away with so much by deceiving me. Exploiting me. Exposing me to the most horrible feelings of abandonment and betrayal over and over again. And lying your way out of it to continue getting away with it.
19 May 8:31 PM - Trudy North: And each time I took you back you promised to never do that again. Whilst you were all the while lining up your next fuck. It's horrific
To keep doing that to someone you say you love.
19 May 8:36 PM - Trudy North: I am so angry that you would damage me so much while I was trying so hard to heal. You should be paying for the year of therapy I have been through. I'm spending time and money on healing the stuff YOU broke on top of all the stuff that was broken already. Don't you think I'd had enough abuse in my life already?  Did you really have to load on all this extra stuff for me to spend sifting through and recovering from?
19 May 8:37 PM - Trudy North: I feel so angry I could shoot you right now.
19 May 8:38 PM - Trudy North: You had no fucking right to do this to me

20 May 4:27 AM - Trudy North: For you and me Debbie:

Some of you have seen the old movie Labyrinth with David Bowie. The girl is sent in a maze and must progress through difficulties, deceits, illusions, dreams and empty promises. At the end, she reaches the castle and confronts the sorcerer. Then, she realizes, everything was an illusion, a game. To break the spell and get out of the maze she tells him "You have no power over me." And that is all. The maze, the castle, the illusions crumble and she is back home.

20 May 8:42 PM - Trudy North: 
“That which is to give light
Must endure burning.”
---Viktor Frankel

One day you wake up and you’re a skeleton. 
You want to paste back on the substance that was you but you can’t find it in the ashes.
You reach in and pull out dust.

This is when you begin to understand that this is somehow the truth you were meant to find as a little girl who just wanted to be loved. This experience, this dance with the devil that scaled you down to the bones happened because it needed to. All of the things that brought you to the dance floor in the first place must be examined, turned over, and illuminated. You so want to find the light. You've been lost in the dark for so long...

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